Between Here + There
Late afternoon light across a Lake Michigan dune, marram grass in the foreground and open water beyond.

For the space between here and there.

A new podcast for people navigating life’s pivots — career changes, identity shifts, and the quiet sense that something no longer fits.

Play Episode 7, Who Are These Guys?, on YouTube
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Episode 7 · Who Are These Guys?

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New episodes every Tuesday

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The podcast

Conversations from the in-between

Emily’s Story

Coming

Emily Wilkins survived emergency surgery in 2017, then went back to the same life and asked, “Why can’t I make this work?” How a week in Florida, a notebook and a deck of tarot cards led the founder of Marketing Metal to the pivot she chose.

New episode

Who Are These Guys?

No big questions this week. Michael and Brian just hang out: how they really met, growing up outside Cleveland and in Detroit, what they’re hilariously bad at, the sounds that drive them up the wall, a lightning round, and what they hope you’ll come to see in them.

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Ka Wai’s Story

Ka Wai Cheung spent 18 years building a company. The day he sold it, he felt relief, then a harder question: who am I now? Our first guest on the next five minutes, keeping your craft in a smaller dose, and why your “there” can be a feeling, not a finish line.

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See all episodes

Follow the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube and each new episode arrives on its own.

The founders

Two careers, one quiet question

We’re Michael and Brian. We met in a yoga teacher training after leaving successful corporate careers, and discovered we were asking the same quiet question: is this it? Between Here & There is what came next — a place to navigate life’s pivots with grounded yogic wisdom and real-world clarity. ‘Here’ is where you’ve been. ‘There’ is where you’re headed. The real work happens in the between — and that’s the space we hold.

“Every pivot starts as a feeling.”
Michael & Brian, hosts
Michael Sanders in a faded plaid western shirt and grey jeans, in a leather chair in the pale pine podcast studio, mid-conversation, one hand open toward Brian beside a boom microphone, forest through the tall window behind him.

Michael Sanders

From tech to teacher

Brian Di Bartolomeo in a leather chair in the same pale pine podcast studio, mid-conversation, one hand raised toward Michael, a boom microphone at his side and forest through the window.

Brian Di Bartolomeo

From corporate to community

Gather

From a podcast to a place

Now · The podcast

It starts with a conversation

Michael and Brian share their own pivot stories, then open the mic to guests in the middle of theirs.

First episodes arrive Fall 2026

Two people in Adirondack chairs, deep in conversation at the edge of the woods.

Next · Online community & gatherings

Space to process

Not more advice — walk-and-talk coaching, breathwork and small-group conversations, online first.

Taking shape after launch

Two people walking a sandy forest trail together, deep in conversation.

Someday · The campus

A place to arrive

Somewhere quiet and wooded near Saugatuck — a retreat built with the community that gathers here first.

The long-term vision · West Michigan

A small group gathered around a fire on a Lake Michigan point at dusk.